Quote:

On 2006-01-14 19:53, Henry wrote: I've bought Century 2x3 lens boards from two sources here: (1) famous auction website, and (2) Midwest Photo Exchange ( http://www.mpex.com ). I just had a bit of trouble navigating their site (got a "timed out" message after about one minute!) but they may be able to help. Probably an expensive proposition for you in the UK to order them from here, but this may be your only alternative (?). Good luck. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2006-01-14 19:54 ]</font>

www.skgrimes.com also sells 'em, will drill them too. They take all major credit cards.

Hi Henry,

I'm in the middle of repairing several cameras (as well as accidentally breaking
one). One day I'll get around to replacing the rangefinder internals - at the moment it is usable - just about.

Thanks for your recommendations - they're very helpful.

England is still part of Europe

For obscure Graflex parts, we get hit by the postal services and customs which makes around 200% surcharges on what Graflex users pay for in the States. Dan - SK Grimes are very reasonable ... for Graflex users in the States....

In any case, the Graflex Century I'm currently using has a 47mm,65mm and 105mm Ektar lenses. That's more than I need, but
sometimes, a vintage lens catches my eye and I wonder if I could temporarily mount it in a 2x3 plate to try out. A 2x3 Graflex Century plate with a contracting aperture would be great

Come to think of it, our own glennfromwy made a few 2x3 Pacemaker boards this fall and offered 'em *******. I bought two; one is a good fit, the other a little tight on my cameras but after fiddling with it I think I can use it. He said he was going to shut down until after the spring thaw, which I think comes in early July where he lives. But he's another potential source, and given the low price he charged me I'm absolutely positively not complaining.

RJ, SKGrimes charges the same price for undrilled boards as MPEX. Buying board and drilling from SKG saves postage. Otherwise, SKG's prices have risen to a level that makes me think very hard before ordering an adapter. For routine shutter work, Carol Miller offers a much better deal.

Cheers,

Dan

Hi everyone,

WOW! Great posts. R_J: Thanks for the tip. I'm going to try MrCad first thing tomorrow morning. I've been trawling through Amateur Photog, Practical Photography and Amateur Photog here in the UK for firms that have anything useful. But haven't had much luck. I'm so desperate i'm even thinking about flying out to New York one weekend to see if i can pick up a few things!

I'm watching a 90mm f6.8 Angulon on the Auction site as we speak. Hope it's a goodun.

I've been meaning to try contacting a few of those US firms for Graflex bits. The P&P is mega-dear but the only way to get anything.

I'd contacted the seller again, and asked about the GG and the lack of the fresnel lens. He said it came with a Satin Snow GG. I did a bit of surfing, and found some really good reviews on it. Someone else said that the later Graphics weren't shipped with a fresnel lens. And the GG would have been shimmed correctly so the film plane would be in the correct position. Either way i'm going to have to spend a bit of time checking the focus. God i'm really looking forward to testing it all out. Looking at the GG with a decent loupe and maybe even under a dark cloth!

But R_J, if my Crown is a little bit off, do you think i could buy that fresnel off of you? I was looking at a few posts here on the same subject and a lot of people are actually taking them out. I'd like to try it and see what happens. Thanks.

I've also fallen in love with the KT617 back. A 6x9, 6x12 & 6x17 rollfilm back on the auction site. It says it's for a Linhoff, Toyo, Sinar, Wista & Horseman to fit 5x4 backs. Do you think this will work on my Crown with Graflok back? I don't need every single last mm, but anything around 56x170mm would be fabulous. The Dayi617 does the same sizes and is marginally cheaper.

Thanks again to all of you for posting. I can't wait till i get my Crown. Hopefully it'll be sometime this week.

Alex

Hi Alex,

" I've been trawling through Amateur Photog, Practical Photography and Amateur Photog here in the UK for firms that have anything useful. But haven't had much luck."

I'm not a snob, but I'm going to sound like one. You read those awful UK rags?

" I'm so desperate i'm even thinking about flying out to New York one weekend to see if i can pick up a few things!"

Please don't do that - at least not before taking my shopping list with you...

Can I ask why you opted for the 90mm f6.8 classic Angulon? Its covering power is very limited for a 90mm lens. Perhaps I'm used to the pretzel-warping demands of my monorail and thus find that the only 90mm lens I can live with is the Schneider XL 90mm Super Angulon. I have a 90mm f8 Super Angulon which I've offered with a Sinar F. If the camera doesn't sell, you'll welcome to try it out and see if it agrees with you. The covering power of the 90mm S.A. is probably greater than the 90mm Angulon. Someone in this forum will correct me if it's not the case.

" Someone else said that the later Graphics weren't shipped with a fresnel lens. And the GG would have been shimmed correctly so the film plane would be in the correct position."

I think this is correct; in any case, with a set of polaroids, it's very easy to calibrate the focussing plane. My 2x3 Graphic came with a piece of sanded window glass and no fresnel screen. There is tremendous corner-fall-off on 2x3 - on 4x5 this will be much worse.

KT617: I don't know this one - who makes it?
The KT617 will fit the Graflex Crown's claw-locks + adapter if it can accept Sinar/Horseman view cameras.

Regarding panoramic format, I use a Horseman 6x12cm (oriental landscape ratio) on a Sinar and struggle with the light fall-off and film curvature when running off Ilfochromes. I think a drum scanned 6x12cm negative would be sharper from edge to edge as the negative carrier artifact doesn't affect the negative plane during exposure. This happens when I'm running 120 roll film. In contrast, when I shoot 5x4" sheet film and crop top/bottom for 6xcmx12cm, the same problem does not occur. 6x17cm however is very demanding: the lens' limitations may be revealed (lack of covering power, and edge resolution fall-off and light fall-off) as well as exaggerated problems with film curvature. There are ways around this, although with a 90mm Angulon f6.8, it doesn't leave much scope for camera movements or covering power.

http://www.mppusers.freeuk.com/clubinfo.htm
may be able to give some ideas about British equivalents. The MPP camera is very similar to the Graflex 5x4 Crown etc. You might check with the MPP users group to see whether any of the British components are interchangeable with the American Graflex ones.

Kind regards,

RJ

PS. - PM me your address and you can have the Fresnel screen for free. The last 5x4" screen I tried to cut down to 2x3" fractured in many different directions

" He said he was going to shut down until after the spring thaw, which I think comes in early July where he lives."

Thanks Dan - I saw this after they all sold out.

That's terrible to think that his winter lasts so long. Why doesn't he move?

Quote:

On 2006-01-15 15:24, R_J wrote: " He said he was going to shut down until after the spring thaw, which I think comes in early July where he lives." Thanks Dan - I saw this after they all sold out. That's terrible to think that his winter lasts so long. Why doesn't he move?

RJ, about the thaw date, I was pulling your leg a little. Its an old american tradition.

As for why he doesn't move, well, they're all a bit nuts out there. We're all a bit nuts where I live too.

Cheers,

Dan

Hi Dan,

Us temperate climate photographers in the Northern Hemispheres are a little gullible!

Spring may be two months away - I think I can see a tunnel to a Century Graphic plate at the end of the light now

Quote:

For obscure Graflex parts, we get hit by the postal services and customs which makes around 200% surcharges on what Graflex users pay for in the States.

PM me about a kalart side RF mirror.
Before my family got smart and left the British Isles a little over a century ago, one of my Great-grandfathers was either
A) a heroic Lifeboatsman, or
B) a notorious wrecker and smuggler.
It all depends on who's telling the tale. But I'll bet I can get a mirror to you under the radar.......:wink:
Top

There!

I've PM'd you secretly and no one knows.

I done good huh?

fyi Midwest actually makes Graflex lensboards occasionally. The two I bought last year (I waited a week while a batch was made) were built of underweight aluminum and do fit a little too sloppily in my Century. Still, they work fine.

Hi everyone,

Still not received my Crown yet. I can’t wait for it to get here. I’ve been looking at different types of film to test out the lens. But need a Polaroid 545 holder. I was tempted by a used 545i Pro with the digital timer but haven’t heard back yet. =o(

R_J: Hehe. Right now I’m reading everything. Good old Borders/Starbucks, I can sip on my coffee or tea, whilst reading every single photog mag on the market. Maybe somebody out there can find some money and publish a mag strictly for large format users. Any ideas you guys?

I’m serious about going to New York. I’ve pretty much contacted everyone in the UK and there just isn’t the stock available. And what is, is way too expensive. So once I decide on a date to travel, I’ll let you know and you can tell me what you want.

I’m so new to the world of Large Format that I saw that 90mm Angulon and thought it was a goody. It went for quite a bit too. I’d thought it was a similar lens to the Super Angulon that I’d read so much about. I’d initially been tempted by a Polaroid 110 conversion with a 90mm Super Angulon from that guy in New Zealand or Australia. http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~razzle/Polaroid/polaroid.html. If your Sinar doesn’t sell I’d love to buy your 90mm SA. Right now my lens wish list is a 42 (or is it a 47?) and a 75mm. And any other good lenses. I’ve been meaning to ask you guys about a Fujinon Printing Lens on the Auction Site. It’s going for over £900. I’m going to start a new thread on which lenses I can use. I’ve been looking at some Rodenstock lenses, but they look like enlarger lenses and not for a lensboard.

Will the 90mm Super Angulon cover 6x17? Perhaps I’ll get a RH8 for 6x9 and practice on that for a bit.

I’ll PM you my address, if that’s ok, but I must insist on giving you something for the Fresnel Lens. Atleast enough to buy a couple of pints.

Thanks again,

Alex

Quote:

On 2006-01-18 12:49, alski2005 wrote: Hi everyone, <snip> Maybe somebody out there can find some money and publish a mag strictly for large format users. Any ideas you guys? I’m serious about going to New York. I’ve pretty much contacted everyone in the UK and there just isn’t the stock available. And what is, is way too expensive. So once I decide on a date to travel, I’ll let you know and you can tell me what you want. I’m so new to the world of Large Format that I saw that 90mm Angulon and thought it was a goody. It went for quite a bit too. I’d thought it was a similar lens to the Super Angulon that I’d read so much about. I’d initially been tempted by a Polaroid 110 conversion with a 90mm Super Angulon from that guy in New Zealand or Australia. http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~razzle/Polaroid/polaroid.html. If your Sinar doesn’t sell I’d love to buy your 90mm SA. Right now my lens wish list is a 42 (or is it a 47?) and a 75mm. And any other good lenses. I’ve been meaning to ask you guys about a Fujinon Printing Lens on the Auction Site. It’s going for over £900. I’m going to start a new thread on which lenses I can use. I’ve been looking at some Rodenstock lenses, but they look like enlarger lenses and not for a lensboard. Will the 90mm Super Angulon cover 6x17? Perhaps I’ll get a RH8 for 6x9 and practice on that for a bit. I’ll PM you my address, if that’s ok, but I must insist on giving you something for the Fresnel Lens. Atleast enough to buy a couple of pints. Thanks again, Alex

Magazine? LF? Google View Camera Magazine. Subscribe to it.

About the Supa Wrangulon, go here http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm
for information about coverage. There's a very similar US-made lens, the Ilex Acugon, also sold by Calumet as an Ilex Caltar. f/8, made in three sizes, 47, 65, and 90. I have a 65, like it as much as I like my 47/5.6 Super Angulon. Note that 90 mm is a slightly short normal lens on nominal 2x3.

6x17? You don't want to do it with a Graphic or, probably, most other 4x5 cameras. The 6x17 extension backs for 4x5s are, um, constraining. Recall what Dr. Johnson said on seeing a dog walk erect on its hind legs.

About going to NYC. Curb your enthusiasm until you've done some serious research or found a better reason to travel than looking for lenses and other stuff to put on a Graphic.

900 quid is much too much for nearly any lens that's amply better than good enough on 4x5. And a lens better than that would be wasted on a Graphic because of the Graphic's lack of movements. Curb your enthusiasm, unless of course you have money to spare and then some.

RJ, please explain to Alex the enthusiastic that I'm not really that bad a person.

Cheers,

Dan

"RJ, please explain to Alex the enthusiastic that I'm not really that bad a person."


Alex,

Listen to Dan! He's a terrible terrible person! If it wasn't for him, I'd still be spelling Graflokk wrokng. Pre-Dan, I didn't know what a Graflex was. Post-Dan, I now have 2x Century Graphics, 47mm Super Angulon, 65mm Super Angulon, Kodak Ektar 105mm f3.7 (woohoo!) plus a 6x9cm Polaroid back which I've not had time to modify to fit the Century Graphic and way too many roll-film backs.

Seriously - building up a large format tool needs to happen piece by piece. One camera + one lens with a few double darkslides are more than enough to get into the feel for large format work with a Crown Graphic. Using different formats can be very seductive, and I'm aware many photographers have their own ideas about flexibility and format, preferring to select a format to suit the image.

I'm not keen on New York - the last time I went, I couldn't find any green fields and countryside. It's a difficult place for bumpkins to visit.

You like the Borders on Oxford Street/Charing Cross Road?? Try looking for:

1. Viewcamera Magazine (www.viewcamera.com)

Steve Simmons' magazine is a great place to start for LF reading.

2. Borders is not always stocked up on this although offers the excellent "Lenswork" Magazine in dogeared, over-read condition. It annoys me when photographers at Borders hogs the copy and flicks through it with their coffee mug resting on the images. I might be buying that last copy....(you don't do that, do you? )

3. Various European Magazines which I enjoy don't have much LF reference: "La Presse sans Frontieres" and "European Art" magazine.

4. There is a rash of British publications which obscures serious literature: Ag Magazine http://www.picture-box.com/current.html is not well stocked at Borders because it is a vivaciously independent fine art photography magazine. It ranks as one of my favourite British magazines although is moving towards a hybrid analogue-digital acceptance.

5.America's B&W Photography is stocked, and that has much LF work too. This is more LF orientated than the British version. It's silver coated pages are just amazing: in the publishing work I've been doing, the cost of paper like that would be astronomical, and here is a magazine using such high grade paper on a monthly disposable basis.

Unfortunately magazine publishing in England is a very risky business. 10 years ago, there was more specialist independent magazines in most genres; recently the shift has gone to web format. Check out http://www.polaroid.com - they used to do a Polaroid quarterly publication which was superlative in every aspect. It was also free, and far more exciting than many fee-based magazines. It's now folded onto an online format.


Unfortunately I've not been able to access the link you provided...

The 47mm Super Angulon I can recommend for 6x9cm format (that's the limit of my experience with it); I have the 47mm Super Angulon XL for 4x5": I can recommend that for 4x5" work - it offers full covering power and is probably the most extreme wide-angle lens available for 4x5" work - it's obvious when then tripod feet come as a part of the image, free of charge. The 47mm S.A. just doesn't cover 4x5" proficiently. Unless you're looking for vignetted aperture-key photographs, at this focal length, there is very little to rival the 47mm S.A. XL for 4x5".

I wouldn't recommend either lens as a starting lens for LF work: both are way too extreme.

A standard 150mm or moderate wide-angle like a 90mm first for 4x5" format - two lenses are more than sufficient. You're welcome to try the 90mm S.A. - rather than buying one which doesn't offer enough covering power for your camera format. I'm hesitant about selling it because it is beautifully compact. Unfortunately it doesn't fit a Century Graphic 2x3 camera due to the inner element's dimensions.

75mm is a focal length that other members could tell you more about. I'd avoid it - in fact, I've managed avoiding it for 5 years
The 72mm/75mm lenses just never made it into my repertoire. Most likely that was determined because I started off with a 180mm Nikkor-SW standard lens and went along the 360mm-180mm-90mm-47mm axis, instead of the 300mm-150mm-75mm-Gulp! axis.

" I’ve been meaning to ask you guys about a Fujinon Printing Lens on the Auction Site. It’s going for over £900."

This is wwwway too specialised a lens to start off with. Its applications would be so inappropriate for 6x17cm and general work.

"Will the 90mm Super Angulon cover 6x17?"

Echoing Dan's point again - unfortunately not at 4x5" and not on a Crown Graphic.

6x12cm is possible - with much due care. The Sinar monorail had a dedicate 'zoom' back which enabled 6x9cm negatives, to 6x12cm and 6x17cm negatives to be shot. This is part of the flexibility of a monorail view camera, trading in convenience and portability. The Crown Graphic favours portability, and I think it would more than possible to adapt for 6x12cm format. If Zeiss invent a vacuum film back for 6x17cm format, it would be worthwhile trying with a 90mm S.A. XL. I think I've seen this lens marketed with a 6x17cm format camera too....

The specialist tool for a 6x17cm format would probably be a Fuji 617 or a dedicated wide-panorama monster camera like the Fotoman series. The Horseman 612SW Pro offers a reasonable balance between negative ratio and portability without awkwardness. 6x17cm is a distinct format with a huge degree of attention required to get the best of the negatives, and I've found the printing a thankless task.

All the alternatives are >3x- 4x more expensive than a Graflex Crown btw....

Without checking the Scheider website, I'd venture that it's highly unlikely and almost certainly not when movement/displacement is applied. The field of view of a 90mm on a 6x17 would be extremely wide and some fall off can be predicted. The 90mm f5.6 Super Angulon XL will cover 6x17mm at f8 without any problem.....


Hope that helps....
Dan - Ilex.

It just struck me (and you're probably the person to ask): I've found an Elgeet Optical Co. No 3x Universal shutter made by Ilex. It seems to have been used for an old oscillocope lens. Any idea what use it had?

RJ, those 'scope camera lenses were used to record oscilloscope traces on polaroid film. The lenses are fast, optimized for relatively closeup and, I've read, for the blue-green cathode ray tube spectrum. They typically cover 3x4 at about 1:1, i.e., are useless as wide angle lenses for 4x5 even though they're sold that way on eBay.

I've had a couple of ex-'scope camera Ilex #3 Universals. Press shutters. Badly off speed when received. Threaded internally at the front to receive the lens' front cell, threaded internally at the rear to receive the lens' rear cell, NOT threaded externally at the rear for mounting to a board.

The cameras mine came from mounted the ends of the lens' cells to frames; each passed through a hole, was held in place by a rubber o-ring. The only way Steve Grimes and I could see for me to use one of my shutters was to attach it to a board with an externally threaded flange that would screw into the back of the shutter and clamp the board between flange and shutter.

Custom flange = $$. Overhaul = $$. For my applications, an ex-Polaroid MP-4 Copal #1 Press is a better deal.

But not all 'scope camera lenses mount like the ones I got, so you have to check any you might buy to make sure. Some, not, alas, all, have external threads and retaining ring at the rear. Not fair.

Hope this helps.

By the way, the 47 SA covers 2x3 and allows minimal movements. The shortest SA that covers 4x5 is the 65, and it allows no movements. XLs are another thing entirely.

Cheers,

Dan